Episode 5: Unlocking FAA BVLOS at 200' and 400' - What Public Safety Needs to Knoww
In Episode 5 of Skydio’s Regulatory Series, Jakee Stoltz from Skydio’s Regulatory Team shared the latest on FAA approvals for public safety agencies operating drones beyond visual line of sight (BVLOS)—with special focus on the growing number of 400-foot waivers. What was once a slow and complex process is now being streamlined, with 200-foot approvals averaging just five days and 400-foot approvals coming through in as little as 21 days. Joining Jakee were Sergeant Jay Kemme and Sergeant Ben Miller of the Cincinnati Police Department, who detailed their four-year journey to launching a rooftop drone program now covering 90% of the city. They were joined by Travis Scott, VP of Commercial Sales at Dedrone by Axon, who spoke to the importance of radar-based detect-and-avoid systems in achieving safe and scalable DFR (Drone as First Responder) operations. Together, the panel shared key insights into waiver strategies, rooftop deployment, airspace deconfliction, and lessons learned for agencies looking to scale quickly and safely.
- All
- right. Good morning, uh, or good afternoon, everyone.
- Uh, thanks for joining another, uh, Skydio webinar here.
- Uh, I'm Jakey Stolz with the Skydio regulatory
- team, uh, bringing you another
- regulatory update for public safety.
- And today we're gonna talk about altitude flexibility, uh, so
- flying beyond visual line of sight at two hundred, four hundred feet.
- Um, so really excited for this one.
- I've got some special guests, uh, that'll be joining me in a bit, uh,
- to talk more
- about this.
- Um, but before we kind of dive into the topic
- of the day, I'm just
- gonna start with a couple general updates on
- this Part 91 Public Safety Beyond Visual Line of Site process.
- Uh, I'm just kind of starting most webinars
- these days with, with some updates like
- this, so, uh, we'll just kinda dive into it quick
- and then we'll get
- into, uh, talking about four hundred feet.
- Uh, so firstly, uh, since the last webinar, I'm,
- I'm just kind of
- showing a, a map here of where all of our Skydio
- customers are, and they're getting
- these public safety Part 91 beyond visual line of sight approvals.
- So the map is growing, and congratulations to any agency,
- uh, that has received their waiver since the
- last webinar.
- Um, and you'll notice there's also a, a little yellow pin here now,
- uh, which we're gonna talk about in a minute
- here, what that signifies.
- Um, but the, the scale is, is just really, uh,
- happening now with these waivers,
- and it's really exciting to see. So,
- um, the-- kind of some fun stats. Uh, so
- these approvals, these Part 91 beyond visual line of sight
- approvals are
- still being approved, uh, quite quickly by the FAA.
- So,
- uh, we're still averaging about five days from
- the time of
- submission to approval.
- Um, and caveat there is that is for, you know, two hundred foot
- approvals.
- Um, in the last webinar in June, that number was about six,
- so things have really kind of stabilized and, and the FAA just has a
- very streamlined, efficient process now for approving these
- waivers, which is awesome.
- And then since the last webinar, again, uh, the number of approvals
- has drastically increased. So we're at about four hundred
- and fifty now, maybe
- even closer to five hundred, uh, as of today.
- Um, that is up from about three hundred two
- months ago.
- So just in the last, like, two months, uh, the FAA has
- issued over a hundred and fifty of these approvals, which is,
- uh, just
- a, a crazy pace. Um, I've never seen,
- uh, waivers get approved at this kind of speed
- before.
- So,
- um... And, and most of them still are these two hundred foot requests,
- about ninety
- percent of them. Uh, but that means there's about fifty approvals
- or so out
- there, uh, that are for four hundred feet.
- Um, and that's kind of why we're here today,
- to talk more about that as well.
- So, uh, many of you, you, you've probably seen like my last couple
- webinars, uh, where I, where I talk about these two concept-
- concepts of operation. But, uh, just in case there's anybody new today,
- um, I just wanna kind of quickly explain the
- two concepts or the two types of
- waivers, uh, that the FAA is issuing, and this will just kinda help provide some
- background for our, our discussion here, uh, in a bit.
- Uh, but the two types of approvals are on the left side,
- you have your kind of
- shielded operations or your two hundred foot approval.
- And this approval is based on flying lower to the ground and using
- ADS-B technology to avoid, uh, encounters with crewed
- aircraft. And this approval is, is typically issued today as kind of a
- blanket approval, so it's really a, a nationwide approval in effect that will
- cover your entire jurisdiction and, and beyond.
- And then on the right side, we have what we call kind of the four
- hundred foot
- approval. And so
- the four hundred foot approval also uses ADS-B technology,
- uh, but you have to also deploy a
- non-cooperative detect and avoid
- system, such as a radar system, camera-based system, et cetera.
- Something that can detect aircraft that don't have ADS-B.
- Um, and so, uh, again, just kind of these two concepts,
- just wanted
- to provide a little bit of context quick for, for the discussion
- ahead.
- And one big change, uh, that happened a couple weeks ago
- now, but certainly between, uh, the last webinar and today
- that I wanna make
- agencies aware of is that the FAA is no longer
- requiring, uh, the public declaration letter for these
- two types of public safety Part 91 requests.
- Um, and so instead of that public declaration letter--
- And as a reminder,
- this was the letter that you had to go to, like, your state attorney, your
- county attorney, uh, your city attorney, basically an outside counsel,
- uh, and that attorney had to, uh, create a letter that declares you as a
- public aircraft operator. And so,
- um, agencies now can instead, they can basically
- create a letter, uh, the FAA has a template that's kinda shown
- on the screen here.
- But you can create a letter that self-certifies that your
- agency meets the two requirements for this waiver.
- So first requirement is that you're a public aircraft operator,
- and then the
- second requirement is that you're a public safety organization.
- And so your agency can now just create this letter.
- The responsible person for the agency can, can sign it, and you
- can submit this, uh, to get this approval.
- So Um, if the public declaration letter was,
- was kind of holding you up
- before, um, or if there was, you know, challenges working with your
- attorney, um, that, that is no longer required effectively.
- Okay. So, uh, bottom line, if you haven't
- requested your waiver yet or if you're still kind of wondering like,
- you know, sh-
- should I do this or should I wait,
- um, we just highly recommend, uh, going and getting, getting the
- waiver today. Uh, there is a guide that we've put together that's...
- The URL's shown on the screen, the QR code as well will take you there.
- Uh, and this guide basically walks through the
- process, kind of
- provides some background information.
- Uh, there's a link on the website where you
- can request, uh, a set of forms and
- templates and kind of examples to help you go through this process
- and, um, we just recommend kind of getting started
- today.
- There's never really been a better time to get started with beyond visual line of
- sight. And,
- um, there, there's likely gonna be a few questions,
- uh, during this webinar,
- um, I know I've already fielded some before
- this about the proposed Part
- 108 rules or the beyond visual line of sight rules.
- Um, and so if you're an agency that's
- wondering like, you know, how do those
- rules impact this process or should I wait, you know,
- is this process going away,
- uh, just kind of if you're wondering like how
- to navigate that, um,
- my recommendation would be to just continue and getting, get this
- waiver 'cause really in effect, like the proposed rule kind of has no
- impact on the, the very near term and sort of what is happening
- today. So,
- um, that rule, there's, just mechanically there's, uh, quite
- a, a process involved with that rule, so it's just a proposed rule.
- There's gonna be a 60-day or, or there is, we're, we're in a 60-day comment
- period now. The FAA is gonna have to go review all those
- comments which,
- which takes some time and then, you know, we, we might see a pr-
- or a finalized rule next year. But even then there's, uh,
- a, a high likelihood at least that there's gonna be like an
- implementation period
- that will stretch, uh, this out further.
- So the, the Part 108 rules are, are more kind of longer
- term,
- uh, but if you want to get started with a DFR
- program or just started with beyond
- visual line of sight ops today, uh, go get this waiver.
- Okay.
- So,
- uh, as promised today, we are talking, for the rest of the webinar at least,
- we're
- gonna be talking 400 feet. So,
- um, I'm really excited, uh, because you get to hear from some
- other people, uh, this webinar instead of just me talking
- for an hour.
- So we're gonna kind of bring in our guests here.
- Um, we've got Travis Scott with D-Drone, and then, uh,
- Sergeants Jay Kemp and Ben Miller from Cincinnati PD.
- And so, um, I'm actually just gonna turn it over to
- them for a little bit
- of an intro of themselves, um, and then we'll take it from there.
- So, uh, why don't we start with Travis, uh, to do a quick intro?
- Thanks, Jakey. Hey, um, Travis Scott with D-Drone.
- Um, I'm the, uh, Vice President of Commercial Sales and,
- uh, in my
- position I get the unique opportunity to work with a wide variety of different
- agencies on everything from counter drone, but also
- enabling beyond visual line of sight with D-Drone Beyond.
- Um, so, uh, not only do I get to hear a lot of
- different use cases, a lot of
- different environments, but also with regard to the product
- development, making
- sure that we're providing, uh, the absolute best solution for, uh,
- beyond visual line of sight. So it's a pleasure to be here and, uh,
- looking forward
- to the conversation.
- That's great. All right. Thanks, Travis.
- Uh, and then over to Cincinnati Police
- Department, and, uh,
- as they kind of introduce themselves, I just wanna say like a big
- congratulations. They, they just launched a DFR program a couple
- weeks ago.
- Um, so I'll turn it over to you, uh, Jay and Ben for an intro.
- Yeah. Jay Kemp. Pleasure to be here, Jakey. Thank you.
- Um, we just went live with our DFO...
- DFR program about three weeks ago.
- Uh, we have nine boxes on three different
- rootop-
- rooftops around the city. Uh, by the end of the year, hopefully
- we'll have 19, and we'll be covering about 90% of the
- city
- with rooftop drones. Uh, we also deploy the
- D-Drone long range radar
- and, um, it's been wonderful the first three weeks.
- It's been a great experience so far.
- And I'm Ben Miller, obviously Cincinnati Police as well,
- working with Jay, getting
- this whole program rolled out over the last couple years, and just excited to be
- here and excited to be flying.
- Awesome. Um, could you guys give, uh, like a little bit of
- context to like how, how long have you guys had a drone
- program?
- Like kind of where did you come from to get to this point?
- Um, just so agencies on, on the webinar can kind of understand
- like,
- you know, uh,
- the, the progress and kind of the steps to get to this point
- even, if you would.
- Yeah, Jakey. Um, we heard crawl, walk, run a lot when we started
- and we hated hearing that, but it's 100%
- true that you need to do that. We started with,
- um, just drones in cars is where we
- started, and we just kind of flew. We had no idea what we were doing, and we
- figured it out as we went. Um, and we built from there.
- So we, we a- added more drones to the fleet.
- We started training more pilots slowly, getting their 107
- license. Um, we started developing drone cars, and
- ultimately we did a, uh, pilot program where we picked a
- neighborhood and we would sit there in that neighborhood
- and we would listen to the radio and respond to any runs that we thought
- a drone could be helpful with. And we had great success with
- that program. We went about a month and a half.
- I think during our pilot period, we cleared 35% of
- our runs by drone,
- um, with no cop ever responding, and we were first on scene
- upwards of 90% of the time. Um-
- So we had wonderful success, and we passed that along to
- our supervisors, who passed it along to City Hall.
- But it truly was about a four-year process
- to get to where we are today. It wasn't quick.
- Um, there was a lot of growing pains and bumps in the road
- on the way.
- Yeah. Yeah, excellent.
- Okay. So yeah, well, let's kind of dive in a little bit
- to some of the waiver process, uh, just kind of regulatory things.
- So,
- um,
- you know, maybe even kind of stepping back, uh,
- to the 200 foot. So we actually all
- worked on the 200-foot waiver first, uh, you know,
- months ago. I remember meeting you guys earlier this
- year in Cincinnati and kind of
- getting that started.
- Um, so yeah, pretty straightforward
- process. Um, I think actually you all were
- before this new process got put in place as well, so it probably took,
- uh, more than five days [laughs] I think, but, uh,
- still relatively quick.
- Um,
- and probably the goals of, like, doing the 200 foot at that time
- were just to
- make sure that, like, number one, you, you got some kind of Beyond Visual Line of
- Sight approval kind of as quickly as possible.
- Um, and that
- gives hopefully, like, maybe some confidence that, you know,
- this is real.
- This isn't just, like,
- uh, you know, kind of hypothetical Beyond Visual Line of
- Sight that we might be
- able to get. It's like getting that 200-foot approval, um, probably
- just kind of de-risk the program a little bit in some ways.
- But, uh, yeah, just kind of any, any thoughts on the 200-foot,
- uh, process or, or sort of what that impact was for you all?
- Yeah. So I think, I think it took us about two weeks for the
- approval for the 200
- foot earlier on this year. Um, and, and exactly like you said,
- we knew that ultimately we wanted to get a 400-foot waiver, uh, but we also
- knew that those were not very common and that there wasn't as clear a path at
- that time for those. So we just wanted to make sure having
- invested a lot of money
- in the program at that point, that we at least cleared
- that 200-foot hurdle,
- and then immediately set our, our next sight on that 400 foot.
- Yep. Yep, 100%.
- Okay, so-
- Jake-
- Oh, go ahead
- ... one thing I, I just wanted to jump in on the, on
- that process there.
- Um, the, uh, the two-week process that you guys had is, is amazing, right?
- The, the speed at which the FAA is approving some of these things and,
- and the,
- uh, the rate at which they're getting approved
- is awesome for the industry as a
- whole. Um, and there, there's no doubt that you guys are, are,
- are leading the
- industry on that front. Um, I was curious if you guys were
- involved with the previous process as well and just kind of the, the length of time
- that that went through. Um, because I think a lot of agencies do get a
- little,
- little nervous about all the paperwork that has to go and every, all the details
- that they have to, to put in. I'm wondering what the difference
- was from your guys'
- first time, uh, if you guys were involved with that i-
- in the earlier process
- before spring of this year, um, and kind of the differences and the,
- the paperwork
- and just the level of effort, uh, that you guys had-
- Yeah, it was a-
- ... to put in on that
- ... a huge difference. So when we first started about four, four
- and a half years
- ago trying to get our first COA, we sat down,
- Googled it, like really didn't have a whole lot of
- people to lean on, um, to give
- us any resources or help. Um, through that Google search we found a
- couple resources, reached out to them, had a little bit of help, but it took us
- months just to get a COA through, and that was
- a, a huge learning experience. It was almost like trying to learn another
- language.
- Getting the paperwork, trying to fill it in,
- not really knowing exactly what
- they're asking for in some of the fields, and then submitting it,
- waiting days, sometimes weeks, before we would get something back.
- And when we'd get the, the information back, it, it also
- wasn't always clear on what we needed to change or fix.
- Um, so it was a pretty painful and lengthy process.
- Um,
- the way things have come along, it's, it's way better now.
- Not, not just the speed of it, but submitting it is significantly
- easier. Yeah, Travis, it took us a year to get that public
- declaration letter that is no longer needed, um, from
- our city attorneys. 'Cause, you know, nobody knew what this was
- necessarily, and nobody was very eager to jump into it, so
- that, that took over a year. Our first COA, or
- not COA, uh, yeah, our first COA
- probably similarly took about a year.
- So d- that, that public letter of declaration
- and the first COA, we
- were about two years in, and we were ready to jump out of a
- window. Um, it was a lot. It was... It, it, we were learning as
- we went, right? And we were failing, and we were learning.
- And, um, and it's just gotten so much easier,
- better, faster now,
- where you can do these things in five days, like you said.
- Yeah. No, and I mean, even, even with the, uh, the process before, you mentioned
- a couple things, Ben. One of, one of them was that you felt like you had
- to learn a
- new language, right? And I mean, that can, that can steer a lot of people away.
- And I mean, uh, I'll, I'll say this, and I think I'll...
- Uh, I think Jakey will agree with me as well.
- Um, both D-Drone and Skydio have resources for
- everyone to make
- sure that they don't have to be scared or timid of that process, making
- sure that we have all of the right resources from drafting the information,
- making
- sure from a technical details of whether you're going to 200 or
- 400 feet, um, needing to have all of the right technical
- information,
- identifying that area of operation.
- I mean, these are all things if you've never done it before,
- you're kind of walking
- into a, a, a completely unknown situation.
- And so, um, I think that might, uh, leave some agencies a little
- timid to just, uh, the fear of the unknown, right?
- And so some of the, the lessons that you guys learned
- and the mistakes that you may
- have made, um, are without a doubt gonna help a lot of
- agencies, prevent them from
- reinventing the wheel and going through the, uh, the same thing.
- So you guys may have, uh, taken a couple bumps
- and bruises along the way, but,
- um, being able to leverage those and help other agencies across the
- country, and
- leverage the resources of Skydio, and leverage the resources of D-Drone
- and Axon,
- um, are definitely gonna allow agencies to-
- hopefully not experience some of
- that, that early pain that you guys felt, um, especially with that, that old
- process that was extremely lengthy and very cumbersome to say the least.
- No doubt. Definitely reach out and ask for help anytime you can, 'cause
- there's a lot of resources out there that'll make things a lot easier.
- Yeah. And it's a small community too, right?
- I mean, it, it, every- everyone wants to learn,
- and what they'll find
- is that there's a lot of agencies who are willing to share the information.
- Look at us right here. I mean, you guys are, you guys are, uh,
- sharing a lot of
- great details here. So it's, uh, it's a good, it's a good thing.
- Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, and I think
- there's...
- Uh, I'm curious, Jay and Ben, how, how you think about this, but I, I talk to
- a lot of agencies, and there's almost kind of two parts to
- getting the waiver
- too. There's, like, the part of
- knowing what to say to the FAA and, like, the forms
- and which documents and, like, that's a certain language,
- and then,
- uh, like, actually knowing how to operate, like, safely
- under the waiver. 'Cause you get a waiver, and it's kind of these
- legalese provisions, and it's like, "What...
- Okay, now I actually have the waiver, what can I actually do?" [laughs] Like,
- you
- know, even, like, the 200-foot waiver, it doesn't tell you how to use the ADSB
- technology to avoid aircraft or the D-drone technology to avoid
- aircraft and so on. So there's, like, getting the waiver and then kind of
- safely operating under, under it.
- Um, those are kind of two separate things, even of themselves sometimes, so.
- And then teaching the rest of your pilots everything that you figure out there,
- trying to get them on the same page. Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Yep. Okay, yeah. So, um, on the, on the 400-foot request
- then, um, and, and I'm mainly just kind of pointing this
- out
- for, for folks on the webinar. Like, again, I've,
- I've talked quite a bit about,
- like, what it takes to get the 200 foot.
- There's generally four documents that you're gonna wanna fill out.
- There's a 7711, there's this letter that
- self-declares you that you meet these requirements.
- There's a checklist, um, and then there's a, a conop of op-
- concept of operation document that, that we recommend.
- So for the 400-foot request, there's a lot of
- similarities, um, but I'll just kind of call out two, uh,
- differences between the two processes.
- So you're gonna use the same 7711, the same letter.
- Uh, there's a DAA version of the checklist.
- So it's very similar, but it has a couple different, uh,
- rows in that table of, like, the requirements that you need,
- uh, to get the 400-foot approval.
- Um, and then
- there's an additional document altogether called a CMD DAA
- document.
- Um, and that CMD DAA document, that's, that's kind of the, the
- details about the non-cooperative detect and avoid system.
- You know, where are you gonna install it, what sensors does it have,
- you know, included, uh, how does it work, and things
- like that. So,
- um, for, for agencies, you know, looking at doing this, and,
- and to kind of echo
- what, what Travis said, um, that CMD DAA document, that should really
- be, like, something the, the vendors are helping you with,
- um, and not something that you as an agency, like,
- wanna necessarily be
- filling out yourselves kind of in a vacuum.
- So, uh, as you're, as you're looking at technologies or if
- you're going with D-Drone and Skydio, basically we've got the resources, we're
- gonna help you fill this out,
- uh, to kind of take that, that work off your plate.
- Um,
- so yeah. Any,
- any thoughts quick on this one or?
- No, I mean, when I worked with you on that-
- Um-
- ... you did probably-
- Go, go
- ... 95% of that work. Sent it over to me.
- I basically just read through it to make sure that it was accurate and that we
- understood what was expected of us.
- So yeah, you definitely made that part of that process about as easy as
- it could
- possibly be.
- No, and the only, only comment that I was gonna make there is that, um, and I,
- and
- we're gonna be covering this in some later slides, is just when it comes to those
- technical requirements of, um, knowing how far the, uh, the
- ground-based detect and avoid technology can effectively, um,
- de-conflict the airspace is gonna be important in identifying
- everything from your
- operational volume, your detection volume, um, and we've got, we've got
- more detailed comments here, but these are all things that go into that process,
- and making sure that, um, you're leveraging the right resources
- who are experts in this. And we do this every day, right?
- We're working with agencies around the country in a wide variety of different
- environments. Some of them are very urban, some of them more rural.
- Every environment's very different.
- And so in some ways you can kind of rubber stamp and just replicate the,
- the same exact, um,
- verbiage a- across different waivers, but there are, are also unique
- details to each one of them, and that's where we can come in
- and assist with, with
- all of those specific details to make sure that that waiver is as
- effective as possible and enables your operations as far as you
- possibly can.
- Yep. And so, I mean, the, the outcome of, of all that work was,
- uh, an approval obviously. Um, but uh,
- you know, great is that it only took 21 days, so
- that's longer than five days, but it's also way shorter than the year,
- uh, that it
- took you to get, like, your first COA or even,
- you know, the three months is kind of where it was for a
- while. Like, w- even when we started the process earlier this
- year, as I
- mentioned, this, this kind of new really streamlined
- process was into play yet.
- We were probably expecting a little longer.
- Um, but yeah, it came, came in in about 21 days.
- Uh, there was no RFIs, no back and forth or anything like that.
- I, I kind of attribute that to, like, the just robustness of the,
- the solution that we're, we're putting in place here,
- which we'll talk about more.
- But,
- um, but yeah, um, really quick, pretty,
- pretty painless I think, so it's good.
- Okay. So yeah, now, um- Just we're gonna kind of just hit on,
- on a few different topics of, like, things to think about if you're, if you're
- thinking about a 400 foot request.
- Um, we're just gonna kind of share some
- insights and, and things about, uh,
- about these. So,
- um, so first off, like i- if you're an agency kind of looking
- at the different technologies out there, uh, the, the different DA
- technologies-
- Yeah
- ... um, you know, one thing you definitely want to be
- thinking of is, like, if I,
- if I actually purchase a, a radar or a camera system,
- um, or whatever the system is, like, does it reliably detect aircraft
- at low altitudes? Uh, 'cause... And that's what we really care about,
- is those low
- flyers. So,
- um, yeah, I'll pass this off to Travis to, to touch on this a little more.
- Yeah. No, and, and that's the thing.
- I mean, we're, we're on such the bleeding edge with
- technology right now, um, and
- driving the industry, and especially with this new waiver
- process.
- It's definitely enabled agencies to move faster, get their waivers faster.
- Um, but it's also enabled, uh, the ability to kind of overlook or
- maybe not, not focus on things that you would have no idea to think
- about, right?
- You don't know what you don't know.
- And so one of the most important things that I think is, is important for everyone
- who's considering ground-based detect and avoid technology is to
- truly understand how far the system can, uh,
- effectively de-conflict the airspace.
- Because even when we did our internal testing at D-Drone, and we were, we were
- doing some internal testing, we saw how far the, the, uh,
- the radars could see,
- and, and we were confident that we could de-conflict at a,
- a certain range.
- Um, we actually went with, uh, a third-party validation through Virginia
- Tech via the MAP test site. Um, and they're absolutely phenomenal.
- They're considered the, the gold standard for all third-party
- validation,
- specifically for, uh, airspace security and, and the ability to
- de-conflict the airspace. And so when they did their third-party
- validation, um, they tested... They flew thousands of flights past our
- system to make sure, um, in different environments,
- different angles and,
- and, uh, all kinds of potential, uh, challenges.
- And with that third-party validation, the D-Drone system can
- effectively de-conflict at 9.45 kilometers.
- Um, and the reason that this is important is because you can't just
- throw a radar
- up on a rooftop and throw a couple test flights by it, and then
- confidently know that that system can detect
- and avoid at those ranges.
- And then it's also important to understand the difference in types of radar.
- Um, there's 2D radar, there's 3D radar.
- Um,
- the absolute most accurate, uh, detection of any non-testing
- ADSB, the ones that the FAA is really concerned about, um,
- these are maybe low-flying military helicopters or tourism
- helicopters. Even, uh, at one site, the things like paragliders
- or, uh, or people who are, are just flying, uh, l- other
- s- low-flying aircraft, these are the things that aren't broadcasting
- ADSB, and so it's important to have an extremely
- accurate track on that.
- But asking those questions of whether or not the system can,
- uh, was third-party validated and is, uh, is certified at certain ranges,
- and then also just that type of radar. Is it a 2D radar?
- Is it designed for marine, uh, uh, type
- surfaces? Um, or is it three-dimensional?
- And that is really, in my opinion, if you're gonna set the stage for true
- autonomy, which is where everybody wants to get to,
- right? Everybody wants to...
- has that vision of a drone coming out of a dock fully autonomously.
- Uh-oh.
- All right. Well, we'll give, we'll give Travis a minute to get back.
- Um,
- but yeah, I think,
- uh, poi- point made that third-party validation
- is important. Um, and I think, you know, f- maybe what people
- don't realize too sometimes about radar is it's,
- it's not like a,
- a sort of an absolute, like,
- data set. You know, with, with ADSB, this is a system
- that's kind of based on, like, an aircraft GPS receiver, and it's
- just being broadcast, like, once a second.
- Um, so there's kind of no, no question necessarily about, like, the,
- the accuracy of it or what is it and so on.
- But radars is you're just sending out, you know, energy and
- getting reflections back, and then you have to kind of make sense of
- what that
- reflection is. So, uh, actually testing it,
- uh, you know, you'll see that, like, this is mean first detection and,
- and so on.
- But, uh, these are not kind of like absolute
- ranges.
- You know, there's just can be a lot of variables,
- uh, that play into it.
- So it's important to understand kind of the, the effectiveness of the radar.
- Yeah.
- Got you back, Travis. [laughs]
- Sorry, but as I-
- No worries
- ... as, as always, I'm on the road and I'm in a hotel room right now,
- and the, uh-
- [laughs]
- ... the connectivity just decided to drop.
- So hopefully it stays-
- Yeah
- ... stable here for a little bit longer.
- Um, but-
- Yeah, we, we got you.
- Yeah. But, um, sorry, I, I, I missed that last part there, but,
- um,
- Jay and Ben, I, I, I wanted to just kind of get your guys'
- thoughts really quick
- on, on that ability to, uh, confidently, um,
- operate beyond visual line of sight up to 400, um, and just your experience
- with, with, uh, the overall process so far.
- Um, really your guys' goals from a scalability
- perspective, what, what is the
- long-term goal for Cincinnati with, with your DFR program and how,
- how you plan on
- scaling it across the city?
- Yeah. So I mean, ultimately, we said earlier we're gonna have 90% city
- coverage. Um, and we want 400 feet at, oh,
- 90% of that for a multitude of reasons.
- Um, one, sometimes we just don't want people to
- know the drone's out there, right?
- There are many times, especially in DFR, that we do. That's the idea.
- We want them to see it, know we're there.
- Um, and we're broadcasting that back to our patrol officers.
- But sometimes we don't want people to know we're there.
- Other reasons are simple reasons that everybody knows.
- You know, we have really tight, tall, high power lines, um, and all of
- that kind of stuff. So this system gives us the confidence
- to know that we can go out and fly, and we're not gonna hit anything.
- Travis, it's, it's picking up birds.
- Um-
- [laughs]
- ... these cameras are picking up birds in the sky.
- So you know it is, if to your point about paragliders
- and all that,
- um, it's not just the ADSB, it's- It's picking up hawks and
- even birds smaller than that.
- Well, and, and that, and that's an important point too.
- Even on the smaller, uh, sized objects because right now while the
- FAA's concern is all focused on crewed aviation, there's
- no doubt, I think we can all agree, that there's...
- The airspace is not gonna get less crowded in the future.
- Um, and there will become a time where there's
- gonna be a much larger risk for
- drone-on-drone collisions with everything from drone package delivery starting to
- take off, medical device delivery.
- And then just you got your hobbyists and every other stakeholder in the area,
- uh, maybe other agencies throughout the city
- that are looking to utilize drones.
- So the, the huge benefit of having that foundational platform
- and leveraging Dedrone for the airspace security portion is that
- we've focused on counter drone or your traditional drone detection for
- the past decade. So taking that transition and being
- able to detect crewed aviation, but also having the peace of mind knowing
- that
- as your airspace needs continue to evolve and become more complex, that
- we can easily continue to scale the program, um, without having to develop new
- technology. This is something that we have perfected over the last 10
- years.
- Um, and so as those drones continue to, uh, crowd the airspace,
- you can continue to have the peace of mind that you're not investing in something
- today that's gonna be obsolete five years from now or even two years from now, um,
- and it'll continue to grow and evolve with it.
- Um, I'm sure there's other agencies or other stakeholders in the area that are
- looking to, to fly drones or that you guys are already probably
- cooperate or, uh,
- coordinating with, um, in the region.
- Yeah. I mean, the, the media first and foremost, they're out
- there on, on every big incident that pops up where we're also
- starting to fly. So we're, we've been trying to start a communication
- with them
- to try to, you know, mitigate those kind of situations,
- but this is gonna make it
- a lot easier, at least for us. So yeah, it's, it's very powerful
- and it's been very helpful.
- Absolutely. Absolutely. Um,
- I've got another question on that same topic of shared network.
- We'll save that one for a second here though.
- [laughs] We'll keep it, we'll keep it going.
- Yeah, no, love, love the discussion.
- Um, okay, so yeah, let, let's talk a little bit about, uh,
- where you put these s- systems. So, uh, just, just
- to kind of explain like the, the two images here a little bit and then,
- uh, we'll have some discussion on this.
- But, um, these are basically some, some line of sight
- analysis tools. Um, and this is a, a tool that Dedrone
- uses to basically look at, you know, for, for a given
- installation location,
- uh, what is the radar gonna see or not
- see? Um, so based on things like terrain, uh,
- structures, um, and so on, you know, y- you wanna
- put this, these, these systems, especially the radar system, in an area
- that has a kind of a full view of the sky so that you can actually
- detect aircraft, uh, in a full range around you.
- So,
- uh, y- you... The, the yellow shading in these images
- is basically like where it
- has good line of sight. So, um, without diving into
- like too much detail, on the left you see a,
- a pretty nice circle.
- There's really good, uh, yellow all throughout the circle, which
- generally just means good line of sight. You're gonna have good coverage.
- The image on the right, you're missing a lot of yellow, right?
- So there's, there's gaps, there's, um...
- And you, if you know Cincinnati, you, you could probably kind of put this
- together
- in your head, but if you put the radar like down in a
- low spot,
- it's not gonna see through a hill, or if you put it behind a building, it's not
- gonna see through that and so on. So,
- um, so just really important part of, uh,
- installing and actually using one of these.
- So,
- um, yeah, go ahead, Travis.
- Yeah.
- Have something to say here.
- Before I jump into the technical analysis of this and, and, uh, provide some
- education on, uh, the viewshed analysis and, and why it's so
- important, um, I think this is a wheel or a, a, a
- we'll s- say a, a problematic situation
- that Cincinnati had to go
- through here. Um, and I think it's important for agencies to
- think about some
- of these things as they're going to implement detect and avoid, or even
- if they're
- just looking to, uh, to implement their, their drone program to start.
- Um, rooftop access is, uh, is something i- important to consider,
- even if you think you have it, but I'll let, I'll let Ben and Jay, uh,
- go through
- their experience and, and I mean, it's frustrating, yes, but it's great, uh,
- great, great educational for everyone else.
- Yeah. So the image on the left is where we thought we
- were going and where we ultimately are going to end up.
- Um, that's the University of Cincinnati and,
- uh, they're a
- state university. Go Bearcats. Anybody familiar with them?
- Um, so that's, that's ultimately where we're going to go.
- We met with them multiple times. We had a gentleman's
- agreement that, you know, "Hey, we're gonna put it here.
- Everything's good.
- Uh, University of Cincinnati Police are gonna leverage our Dedrone
- platform, so it's a win for them. They were gonna install the data and
- give us the space on the rooftop." It's the, the building we wanna be on is the
- highest building at the highest point in Hamilton County, so
- like we can't get any better than that.
- Um, about a week before we were going to install the Dedrone system,
- the lawyers got involved and the...
- Because they're a state university, the state also got involved and said,
- "Hold on,
- you can't put it up here. We have to do all these other things." So
- while our
- gentleman's agreement and handshake is still good and we're working through
- it, we
- had to find a temporary short-term solution. Um, so we...
- The second image you see is downtown.
- That's on one of our police buildings.
- It's a seven-story building, and Cincinnati's very hilly,
- so, you know, 200 f- foot hills, 250-foot
- hills going up all around the city.
- Um, and that's why you see kind of the blotchy
- image there. So it...
- Dedrone was kind enough to, uh, we installed it, we got
- the system up and running, and we're gonna take it down
- and we're gonna move it
- up to that first image when we get a chance, but, um,
- definitely a learning
- lesson.
- And again, I go back to four years ago
- when we started this.
- We've learned a lot, and we've gone through a lot of pain, um,
- that
- we're happy to share with other people so they don't have to do it.
- And I would encourage, you know, if, if you're working on a long-term location
- like
- we are, if you've got the opportunity to put it up
- someplace,
- you know, we're not flying at 400 feet right now
- because we don't have very good
- line of sight. You know, our wheel on the right there
- is not looking so great.
- So we're maintaining 200 feet primarily, um, but we're still
- leveraging that system so that we can learn it,
- learn how to interact with it.
- And just in the last couple weeks we've, you know, learned a couple things about,
- you know, what are we gonna have up on a TV for all
- the pilots to be able to see
- versus what do I need to have on the monitor right in front of me?
- What alerts do we have? What sounds mean what things?
- So having that short-term solution,
- albeit not really getting us that 400 foot that we wanted to begin
- with,
- when we get that 400 feet we're not gonna have those learning curves at that time.
- We'll be familiar with the system and ready to go.
- So getting that short-term solution was still very helpful for us
- even though it's not getting us exactly what we want just yet.
- Yeah, and you mentioned, you mentioned the, the 200 and 400.
- I think that's a very important thing because I, I oftentimes get the question
- of, "Okay, well, should I just go to 200
- or should I just go to
- 400?" And it's really not one or the other.
- There's a major benefit to having both, and this is a perfect example of it where
- in the, in the, on the right-hand side, in the, the d- the dark yellow, I
- guess if that's, [laughs] the, the saturated yellow area here, um,
- you c- you can operate u- up to 400. Um, but in this type of
- deployment here, knowing where you can and you can't,
- and maybe you wanna dip down
- and operate at 200, at that level. Um, but I think it's
- extremely important, um, for anybody on this call who,
- who might be thinking
- about doing a ground-based detect and avoid system.
- Even though, uh, we, we went and got third-party validated
- and Dedrone can
- effectively, uh, detect and avoid at those ranges
- that Virginia Tech has, has
- validated us for,
- as I had mentioned, every single location, every, every city, every,
- every deployment has a different, um,
- topography, different building structure.
- And I say this all the time, you cannot just put a radar on a rooftop
- and
- say that, "Yes, w- we think that this can detect and avoid at
- nine, nine and a half kilometers," or whatever it may be.
- And so if you're thinking about doing a, a system like this,
- it's extremely important to do these view shed analysis.
- So if you put your radar up on a rooftop and there's a large building right next to
- it, there's gonna be a complete bind- blind spot right next to it.
- It's gonna cast a shadow, and that entire shadow j-
- is just gonna get bigger and
- bigger as it goes outward. Um, and so having this type of
- analysis, while it may be a little painful in the
- short term, I think from an
- educational perspective, um, it's important for everyone to know
- that radar
- is, uh, is, is an extremely temperamental type of
- technology,
- and it needs to have a good location.
- And that location needs to be tested because even if it is the highest point,
- there
- may be something, uh, tricky with maybe where it's positioned on
- the rooftop.
- Um, and so doing this level of in-depth
- analysis is what really sets
- Dedrone apart from, uh, any other company
- when it comes to the airspace
- security. Um, some people might be wondering, "Well,
- why would you even show this
- image on the left? That doesn't show very well." Well,
- the session here today is
- more about education and showing people the level of effort
- that we go into.
- While it may be a little frustrating and a little time-consuming,
- it's important
- for our customers to have the absolute best solution out there
- and know that we've gone through this in-depth analysis.
- This image on the right is a short-term location,
- but we've identified the
- most optimal location. We will get it there eventually
- and have a very robust
- system for beyond visual line of sight up to 400.
- But we would be doing all of our customers a disservice if we just threw a
- radar up on a rooftop and said, "Trust us.
- It'll be able to detect and avoid at that range," because
- that could result in your
- system being pulled offline down the road.
- If the FAA wants to come in and audit the, the, the data and see if it's
- actively doing what you say it can do, we wanna make sure that everyone has the
- confidence knowing that we've gone through the process
- and they can, without a
- shadow of a doubt, know that the system will effectively detect
- and avoid at
- those ranges, and that their system isn't gonna be
- compromised or at risk of being
- pulled offline some time down the road. And that's, no- nobody wants that.
- That, that's a step backwards that puts fear and doubt in people's
- minds, and this
- is something that we need to take our time with the imple- implementation,
- take our time with the, the analysis of all the airspace
- and all the different
- factors, and then you can continue to build from
- there.
- Um, but I mean, I think both, uh, Ben and Jake can attest
- to the level of detail that we've gone into.
- And everybody wants to move fast, right? Everyone wants to, "We need to get it up.
- Let's get it up." But I think, uh, they've seen the level of, of effort
- that we've
- gone into on, and hopefully it's, uh, it's starting, it, it will pay off
- long term.
- No doubt.
- Yeah. Yeah, and, and kind of tying, uh, I mean,
- both of you I think kind of hit this point, but tying it a little bit back to,
- like, the waiver itself too, um, the, the
- 200 foot and the 400 foot waivers that you actually get, the,
- the piece of paper,
- uh, they're almost identical. I mean, I'd say, like,
- 90% of the provisions are kind of the same between them.
- But the 400 foot approvals will contain a couple extra provisions that
- talk about your detect and avoid system,
- um, you know, how it basically has to be, like, as you stated in the application
- and so on. But, but one key part tying back to this,
- this line of sight
- model is that
- the, the last sentence highlighted here, if, if you're operating in an area where
- the DA system, uh, is compromised or basically not
- effective, you have to go down to flying at 200 feet.
- So,
- um, if you don't know kind of where these
- areas are, um,
- then you could be putting yourself at risk of kind of not complying with your
- waiver, um, as well. So just kind of tying
- that all back together.
- Yeah, and there's also, I mean-
- To that point, Jakey, one thing we noticed
- when we got our 400 foot, and I remember
- talking to you about it 'cause I, it said if there's a lost connection- That
- your return to home has to be set at 200 feet, and I thought maybe that was a typo.
- Uh, but it was brought, brought up to my attention.
- It makes perfect sense.
- You know, you need to have pilot interaction with
- this drone for this whole system
- to actually completely work. So if you lose connection to your aircraft,
- your return to home needs to be set down in that 200-foot ADSB area
- because you're no longer, um, hands-on to be able to,
- to maneuver that, that aircraft should you come into a,
- a conflict zone.
- Yeah. Yeah, you might see something on the radar,
- but you can't avoid it then,
- right? Yeah.
- Correct.
- Exactly, yeah. Uh, yeah, what were, what were you gonna say, Travis?
- I think you had-
- Um, no, I was, I was just,
- uh... I, I, I will save it for the next slide.
- I think, uh, I think we-
- Okay. Okay, perfect
- ... got a good one here.
- Yeah. Right on. Okay. All right, so yeah, um, just kind of
- a,
- another thought here, uh, just insight with
- this, with this technology is that, um, you know, y- you may hear,
- um, and you have heard, um, that these radars maybe have, like,
- kind of
- these maximum detection distances or, like, average, in the case of the
- third-party validation, the, the mean detection range of over nine
- kilometers.
- Um, but I, I do hear some agencies get a little
- confused about this.
- Like, does that mean I can operate out that far?
- Or kind of what does that mean for, like, operational areas?
- So just, um, one thing, you know, I, I think it's important for agencies to
- know is that,
- um, y- you do need to give a little bit of buffer
- between sort of where
- the, the maximum or, like, that average detection distance is
- and where you
- operate, so that if you do detect something,
- the, the operator has that time to kind of do
- these four steps here. We call it detect, track, evaluate, maneuver.
- But basically, you need to have some time to actually
- react, and if
- necessary, uh, get the drone out of the way.
- So,
- um, there's oftentimes a small difference
- between sort of your detection range
- and then the max distance that you can operate, uh, the drone at.
- And, and for our, our CONOP here and the, the approval,
- we basically give the, the pilot about a mile, which
- in terms of kind of like time and speed is about 30 seconds, uh,
- to, to take action if something is actually detected at that range, so.
- Yeah. And I mean, when it, when it comes to the, the, the
- mathematical equations that go into identifying these
- and making sure that
- your, uh, operational volume has a well clear
- buffer,
- uh, out to the detection volume, these all need to be, uh, in line with the
- ASTM standards. And, uh, we all know that there's acronyms for, for the,
- to the end of time, uh, when it comes to the FAA and, uh,
- just all, all of
- this industry. Um, but the ASTM standards are,
- are the set of standards that
- are, are extremely important to base all of
- this off of.
- Um, and again, this is just another reason why leveraging
- Virginia Tech, uh, was
- such a, a valuable resource for Dedrone because,
- um, they go ahead and put all of those calculations in
- there.
- So when we are, are validated at that almost four and a half kilometers,
- we know that, uh, all of the, uh, near midair collision
- calculations were put in. And as, uh, you see here, this 30 seconds for the
- operator to complete a, a chain of events.
- All of these things have to be put into, to, uh, consideration here.
- Um, and it is a very complex process.
- One slight miscalculation could drastically change what the outcome is.
- And so that's again why it's just very important to, uh, make sure
- that the system has been checked, validated, and, uh, and third party
- independently validated, um, using those, uh, those different
- calculations, so.
- Uh, yeah. And then we got, uh, like this next one, so we'll,
- we'll just move to
- it 'cause I know there'll be some discussion on this.
- So, you know, w- we've kind of talked about, like,
- you know, pick the
- right technology, install it in the right location,
- but now as, like, an operator,
- how do you actually use this technology?
- Like, it's detecting things, but, uh, now what?
- So,
- um,
- DFR Command and, and Dedrone, there's actually a couple options really
- for,
- you know, Jay and Ben, how you guys can view this, this data.
- Uh, Dedrone has a display, um, which might be
- useful in some cases.
- Um, and then we're also integrating in DFR
- Command, we're integrating this
- data directly so that, like, as a pilot, uh,
- you know, you, you mainly wanna be focused on the
- mission, right?
- The video, what's going on on the ground, communicating, et cetera.
- You don't wanna spend a lot of time, like, kind of being this
- airspace monitoring system or, or distraction.
- So, uh, we're gonna be integrating this data all
- in one kind of pane of glass for
- operators with alerting so that pilots just know
- if something's getting close.
- But,
- um, but yeah, I, I kind of wanna turn it over, you know,
- Jay and Ben to maybe talk
- about how you're kind of setting up your, your displays and, uh, how
- you're using this data.
- Yeah. So we're... Our, our primary setup right now,
- we've got one,
- um, 37-inch monitor that we're utilizing.
- That's, like, our primary monitor in front of us,
- and then we have our laptop
- monitor as well. Um, but we're using that 37-inch monitor
- primarily for the DFR Command. That's where we're doing our flights.
- We're getting our dispatch runs. We're clearing all of our stuff on there.
- Um, we also have a 50-inch TV up on the wall
- that all the pilots in the room can see, and that is
- what we have Dedrone Beyond, like, that is up there 24/7.
- So it's kind of like you've got two, two options.
- If I'm piloting a drone and I'm flying, I'm gonna get that information inside
- that,
- that window that I'm actively flying in. So you really can't miss it.
- It's right there. It doesn't obscure your view of anything.
- It's in a... It pops up in a way with an alert,
- so you really can't miss it, but
- it's not gonna interfere with you.
- It gives you the information you need very quickly.
- Um, and then kind of a, a second line of defense there up on that
- TV. The TV's also gonna alert. So if there's other pilots in the room who
- maybe
- aren't actively flying, they can continue to monitor that as well.
- They can give you some additional information to let you know what it
- is that
- they're seeing, um, when you're clear, those kind of things.
- So it's kind of twofold, and it kind of... It's a team effort at that point.
- Yeah. Yeah, fantastic.
- One, one-
- Okay. Yeah
- ... one comment-
- Yeah
- ... ju- just one thing I wanted to, to mention here, Jakey, is that, um,
- I mean,
- as, as we had mentioned, there's, there's a,
- a lot of different use cases here.
- So, um, that pilot, uh, of course, we want Dedrone, if
- necessary, to just be completely behind the scenes.
- And I think a lot of people when they think about integrating new
- technologies,
- they're gonna think about all the different screens
- that they're gonna potentially
- have to look at. And I've seen some pretty wild setups in
- my day.
- Four or five monitors all doing different things, ADS-B on one, um,
- and then still flying a drone at the same time.
- Um, but our whole goal is to be the engine of the airspace,
- if you wanna think it
- that way, just completely de-conflicting the
- airspace, whether it be from crewed
- aviation or drones or, uh, anything that could potential be,
- potentially be an airspace conflict.
- And ultimately feeding that right into DFR command
- and reducing the amount of
- screens that you have to look at. Um, but there also may be a scenario where
- you're working a major event, um, and that person that work-
- that's working on the
- command post may not necessarily be concerned with, uh, crewed
- aviation or, or, or the drone operations in general,
- but they are worried about
- airspace security. And that person may have a need to just look
- into the Dedrone
- system and see drone detections in that area.
- And so being able to segment the, uh, user permissions based on
- different roles and responsibilities within the organization, and then also
- different, uh, scenarios, whether it be a major event or a rapidly
- evolving situation, having that flexibility, um, is
- huge. And, and just being able to integrate with
- technology that you're already
- utilizing, um, is, is phenomenal.
- Nobody wants to add more screens or make things more complex.
- Um, I'm, I'm sure that, uh, both Jay and Ben are already looking at plenty of
- monitors, uh, on a daily basis. Adding another one is not something, uh,
- we wanna
- do, so. [laughs]
- And it's not cost-effective. You know, monitors are expensive.
- If you've got 10 pilots, that's 10 monitors, you know,
- that just adds a whole
- another expense to this already rather expens- expensive rollout that you're
- working on. Um, so having it all built into one program
- where it's
- gonna give you that information immediately when you need it,
- but it can operate in
- the background in the meantime, you know, it saves you thousands of dollars just on
- your initial setup.
- Absolutely.
- Let's see.
- Okay. Um, and maybe before I... You know, we're, we're, we
- got about nine minutes left. We'll try and do a couple questions,
- but maybe before
- I get to, like, the Q&A, just, uh, just wanna open it up, like, uh,
- maybe Travis first, any- anything,
- any final thoughts, uh, anything you wanna, uh, hit on?
- Yeah. I mean, the, the fin- the final thoughts on my end from,
- from the airspace
- portion is, is really the key things that, that I, I focused on today
- would really be, if you could take away th- this one thing,
- I would say, uh,
- when evaluating a, a ground-based detect and avoid system,
- make sure that it's
- third-party validated, um, and that those, those are independently tested,
- not just, uh, the, the company saying, "Hey, trust us, we can do this."
- Um, identify those right rooftops so you can
- do it.
- Um, and then also make sure that it's scalable for different types of
- operations,
- whether it be beyond visual line of sight, drone detection, um,
- and of course being able to integrate with the, uh, the existing platform.
- I mean, those are, those are the key things that I, I,
- I just try to educate
- agencies 'cause everyone's at a different stage of their DFR, um,
- journey. And so regardless of where you are, um,
- all of these
- different things really do matter.
- Um, and you can't just throw a radar on a
- rooftop and hope that it detects and
- avoids and, and think that it's gonna be effective.
- So, um, really taking those additional steps
- are some of the, the most
- important things that I, I would like people to, to walk away on,
- at least on the
- airspace portion of it.
- Yeah, and I'll piggyback on Travis a little bit.
- Three or four years ago, two years ago, Ben and I were on the other end of this
- call, um, listening in to people who have done it.
- Right?
- And, um,
- I'd just say rely on your sources, right?
- Rely on people that have done it. Um, we wouldn't be where we are without
- experts in the field, without people that were willing to help us along the
- way.
- And now we're, we're kinda here with it live
- and we're doing it,
- and we're happy to help others. I mean, that's...
- Anybody that's in law enforcement knows that's what we do.
- Somebody does something and then we share it, right?
- Then everybody kinda copies that.
- So rely on people that have done it, and it's a lot less
- scary now than it was even a year ago.
- Um, it's, it's all getting easier and more mainstream.
- Yep.
- For sure.
- Don't expect a, a fast solution this...
- It, it takes time, depending on where you're at.
- If you're just getting started, it's gonna take a while.
- It'll probably go faster for you than it did for us because there's a lot more
- resources out there to, to assist.
- Um, but it's gonna take some time, and make sure as you're going through that
- process, you, you are always asking, you know, "Who needs to be
- involved in this call?" Learn from our example working with UC.
- You know, we met with Law and Public Safety up there.
- We met with their, the person of, in charge of all their real estate.
- We thought we had all the right players in the room, and we totally left out an
- entire aspect of it that kind of slowed some things down at
- the very end.
- So make sure you're thinking big picture.
- You know, do we need to have lawyers involved?
- Do we need to have...
- You know, it's a state institution. Does the state have any scope here?
- Are they gonna be interested in, in this process as well?
- And then lean on some of your stakeholders in your communities as well.
- You might be able to find some good partners who understand that,
- you know, this could help them as well, and maybe they'll help you front some of
- that burden or offer a rooftop, you know, that kind of stuff.
- Yeah, perfect.
- Okay. So yeah, let's look at a couple questions
- here. Um, and I'll, I'll try and kinda
- moderate these a little bit and, and dish them out.
- But, um, there, there's a, um, look at kind of
- a group of questions of, like, uh, ADS-B
- and, and DAA an- and just kind of, like, more technical on them.
- So, um, I'll, I'll sort of answer the first part of it.
- And, like, the question is, like, so X10s have ADS-B on them.
- So from a 200-foot perspective, like, do I need any extra
- technology to go do that type of, uh,
- of operation? And I can kind of skip back here to-
- Uh, the two concepts of operation here really,
- right?
- So, uh, so to get started with the 200-foot
- approval,
- um, you don't really need kind of any extra
- technology.
- Like, Skydio has ADSB built in both to the
- drones and to
- our docking stations. Um, and so you can
- basically just request this waiver, and you don't need any kind of
- extra technology,
- uh, software, et cetera, to go do that.
- Um, and then, you know, do, do Skydio drones have the
- non-cooperative detect-and-avoid technology built in though?
- Uh, no, and, uh, I would say for, for small
- drones kind of of this category,
- um, on board non-cooperative detect-and-avoid
- technology is,
- um, to my knowledge there, there aren't any options really.
- I mean, Travis, like the, the radars we're talking here, um,
- and I'm, I'm gonna pass it to you for kind of a
- little more detail, but these are,
- these are bigger radars, almost bigger than an X10 themselves,
- right?
- So-
- Yeah
- ... um, so we, we didn't really talk about it,
- but Travis, could you just
- maybe quickly explain, like, what is a DedroneBeyond system?
- Like, what sensors does it have and-
- Yeah, um, so-
- How is it... Good
- Yeah, the, the, so the DedroneBeyond system is, is, uh,
- leveraging a, a wide
- variety of different technology.
- So, uh, the foundation of it is long-range radar.
- Um, those radar panels, uh, there's all different types of radar out
- there.
- Um, and some of them are short range, some of them are long range, and as I'd
- mentioned, some of them are also two-dimensional.
- Um, but we are, we're leveraging a, uh, a long range radar that's
- three-dimensional. We also have a, uh, a PT- a PTZ camera
- on top for object verification. So as soon as something is detected,
- again, these things are non-cooperative, so the radar detects it and it gets a
- track. And there's very good classifiers
- that are, are built in that can
- sometimes get a, a, an object verification.
- But having that camera to visually, uh, confirm exactly what
- that, uh, that object is, um, just gives you an additional layer of
- verification. And then of course we also have ADSB built
- into the,
- uh, the DedroneBeyond system as well.
- So taking all of these different data points give you the ability to have
- extremely high-quality airspace awareness, and so that's really the, the
- basics of it. Um, the technology itself, radar is, is very
- straightforward, but, um, taking all of these different things into
- account,
- um, and, uh, reducing false positives as much as
- possible by
- adding additional filters and things like that, this comes with the
- decade-long experience that Dedrone has detecting very small
- objects, the, the
- drones that are in the airspace. And so taking that same foundational
- technology
- and applying it to detecting larger objects will reduce the amount of false
- positive as much as possible. There's no doubt we're still gonna get the
- birds
- every now and then. Um, that's just how radar works.
- Um, but being able to reduce them as much as
- possible is key because
- otherwise your, your system's just gonna be going off
- constantly, and you're g-
- constantly gonna be having to take avoidance maneuvers because you can't
- delineate
- what's a aircraft and what's a, a, a bird or something
- that shouldn't be alerting.
- And so these are all additional things from a technology perspective that we
- apply to the, uh, the foundational radar technology
- that make it,
- uh, as effective as it possibly can.
- Yeah, and to your point, like Jay mentioned earlier,
- that we've been picking up
- birds, I wanna point out that we're not detecting them.
- The radar is seeing them. The camera is then pointing to them.
- It's determining that it's a bird, it's not an aircraft, it's not a drone,
- and
- we're not getting any kind of alert.
- So you would never know that that bird was being picked up
- if you weren't watching
- the large TV on the wall and seeing what that camera's doing.
- So it's-
- Yeah
- ... it is, it is picking them up, but it is not throwing us alerts every
- time it
- detects a bird. It's detecting it, identifying it, realizing that it's a
- bird, and we get no detection whatsoever.
- Um, so it's definitely doing its job there,
- making sure that it's only mitigating
- and deconflicting space with either manned aircraft or other
- drones.
- Yeah, and that's huge because-
- Yeah
- ... y- you, you guys know just as well as I do that
- if that thing starts going off
- constantly, and nine times out of 10 it's a bird
- and not an actual aircraft,
- eventually you're just gonna be like, "This is, this is, uh, uh, out of control.
- We cannot keep doing this." [laughs]
- Y- you get that false alarm syndrome-
- Yeah
- ... where you just stop listening to it.
- Yep.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, that's such a good point, so glad that got brought up.
- And, and just kind of r- related, too, there, there's a question, um, I
- think there may have been a little confusion on, so there's sort of a
- long-range radar times three here, and whether this was one,
- o- one DedroneBeyond setup or multiples.
- But, you know, th- this is basically one node, kind of one
- installation that is covering now this, uh, this large
- area. Um, and, uh, Travis, too, so,
- so these are primarily, like, roof-mounted on,
- you know, uh, poles or, or to kind of elevate them up, right?
- But you also have, like, trailer-mounted solutions.
- Like, you have a variety of kind of deployment
- options, right?
- We do. So the, the standard and, and my recommendation for these types of
- deployments is always rooftop. Um, that way you can also get a stable
- network connection, um, and, uh, and just power
- connectivity. We do have the ability to deploy these on
- trailers with Starlinks,
- and that way you have a little bit more of a, a mobile solution here.
- Um, and the FAA has said in their new process
- that, uh, that mobile
- solutions can be utilized for ground-based detect-and-avoid.
- But I think for most DFR programs, having them roo-
- roof-mounted, having them in an optimal location,
- doing this view shed analysis-
- Mm-hmm
- ... that's gonna give you the best results
- and consistent results.
- If you have a trailer that's moving around, it's gonna be very difficult to do
- these view shed analysis on the, on the fly in real time
- and determine where you
- can fly and where you can't. Um, so roof-mounted is definitely the
- recommendation.
- Mm-hmm.
- And just for perspective, we were able to get ours up on the roof
- and completely
- installed in just under two days. Um, so it's not a super
- technical process. Um, it's, you know, a giant erector set,
- basically. Lots of screws, lots of bolts, uh, but the instructions are super easy
- to follow. We had a couple, you know, people on site with us from Dedrone,
- but we
- were also pitching in and helping out.
- Um, the hardest part of the whole process
- is just getting the equipment to the
- roof. But once you're up there, the install is really pretty simple.
- Travis, it's probably por- important to point out that there's no,
- uh, penetration
- to the roof. You guys don't put any holes in.
- So-
- Yeah
- ... I know that's important to a lot of
- people.
- No, and that's, that's actually a great point.
- Uh, on, on the mountain, um, if, if getting permits to
- actually mount something to the building is a problem, uh, we can do
- non-penetrating roof mounts just like Jay mentioned.
- Um, and really work with any sort of
- configuration options.
- Um, all D-Drone really needs is a three-inch diameter pole to,
- to put it on, um, and make sure we've got a good location,
- and, uh, we can, we
- can figure out the, the best way that meets your agency's needs without
- having to
- jump through hoops for permits and mounting things to the actual building
- itself.
- All right.
- Yeah. Um, and I, and I know we're, we're already a little long.
- I think we'll do maybe, like, two more questions.
- There's a couple of good ones for folks that are sticking around.
- So, um,
- as far as, like, is, is this system specific to, like,
- X10 or is it, you know, agnostic? Um,
- so Travis, maybe if you could speak to
- that a little bit.
- You know, there's obviously-
- Yeah
- ... a very tight integration between Skydio
- and Axon, as, as you
- saw, like,
- um, getting this data all on one pane of
- glass,
- but it's also not, you know, limited to just X10.
- Yeah. No, I mean, we're, we're committed to enabling the entire
- industry as a
- whole. Um, agencies, public safety agencies
- are the priority first
- and foremost, and we wanna make sure that they're leveraging whatever
- technology
- they're already utilizing. Of course, we're, we're, uh, kind of part and parcel
- to, to Skydio, and we wanna make sure that we're, uh, encouraging that.
- I do believe that it's the, the best drone in the industry,
- or the best
- American-made drone without a doubt.
- Um, and enabling that and creating a, a, an environment or an
- ecosystem, uh, that has the ability to continue to scale,
- I think is the, the most
- important thing possible. Um, and with the partnership that we have, I,
- I think
- that it's, uh, c- not even close to, uh, being matched anywhere
- with the, the product capability, flexibility, um, and
- scalability, if I just wanna continue to throw
- buzzwords out there.
- [laughs] Um, it, uh, it has, it has a lot, lot of
- potential and a lot of ability, but it is sy- system agnostic at the end of the
- day.
- Yeah.
- Okay. Um, and so, so this last one, um, it, it's not
- directly related to 400-foot, but, like, there's so many questions about
- this, uh, that I, I do s- wanna hit on it quick.
- So for both the 200 and the 400-foot approvals, the,
- the sort of default approval,
- and this is related to the zero grids and the facility maps, uh, to,
- to tee off here. So these two approvals by default will
- allow you to
- fly in controlled airspace up to the facility map grids,
- and the facility map grids become basically like a hard ceiling.
- So if you have a, if you have a 400-foot approval,
- like Cincinnati PD, but
- the grid is 200, they're still limited to 200 or zero,
- can't fly or s- and so on. So, uh, so the, all the questions here
- are around, like, how do I get around these areas?
- How do I, like, raise these grids? Is there a process to do that, and so on.
- Um, so the, the short answer
- today is that the FAA is working on a process
- to, uh, sign COAs. So these, this would
- be sort of a second request. Um, but they're,
- they're working on a process to sign COAs that will allow agencies to routinely
- fly above, uh, certain grid numbers.
- Um, now this is still gonna be a little bit
- dependent on the airport,
- the runways, just the, the airspace situation in your
- jurisdiction.
- Um, you know, I th- I think you should temper expectations
- that you're gonna get
- ability to fly routinely, like 10 feet from the runway.
- But there are a lot of airports and areas around the country where maybe
- the zero
- grids are, like, bigger than they maybe realistically need
- to be,
- or, um, there, there should be maybe another way for kind
- of
- professional public safety operators to fly in these areas.
- Um, and so the FAA's working on a process.
- Um, there's been some movement in the last
- couple weeks, uh, that's very promising,
- so I think we're getting closer. Um, and we're gonna do some, some
- follow-on content to that when we kind of know about a process so we
- can give some more information about that.
- Um, but yeah, that's kind of where things stand today.
- So you're, you're stuck at your grid numbers for
- today, and hopefully very soon
- there will be a process and, and we'll be back to tell you more about
- that.
- So, and I don't think, you know, for Jay and Ben, I think you guys are,
- are quite lucky that your airports are kind of generally outside of town,
- so I
- don't think this really impacts you.
- But,
- um,
- yeah. Any final comments on that
- from, from the field?
- Uh, only just that-
- Cool
- ... you know, we've been talking a lot about the 400
- foot, but for the last three
- weeks we've been flying at two. And, um, you can accomplish pretty
- much everything at that 200-foot point.
- So don't, don't be discouraged if you do have an airport nearby
- and it's keeping
- you down at that 200-foot mark. Uh, it's not a big deal.
- It's not, uh, impeded us one bit.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, it's all about, you know, be, be flexible, right?
- It's just kind of one of the, the big takeaways here. You know?
- So it's not always 400, it's not always 200.
- Um, having options and, and kind of just being willing to work in
- the situation you've got is, is key, so.
- Okay. Um, so yeah, we, we went long, but thanks for those of you that stuck
- around. Uh, thanks Jay and Ben and Travis for joining me today.
- This was awesome. Uh, gave me, gave me a little break from talking for an
- hour,
- so. Um, and yeah, for the questions that we didn't answer, we'll,
- we'll try and do
- some follow-up on that.
- Um, but yeah. Until we see you on the next one, uh,
- fly safe, everybody stay
- safe, and we'll take care. See ya.
- Sounds good.
- Thanks, guys. Thanks everybody.
Watch Time
1 Hr 7 Min 26 Sec
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